vs here
[url]http://www.discogs.com/artist/Equinox+(3)[/url]
and i (personally) would assume that if a person wants to work with someone they had gained some of their influences from them, even if it is only liking their music.
and you did say although i can't be bothered finding the exact quote, that US were gaining influences from people such as squarepusher, where that had no place in the UK scene.
but this argument could go on forever, i'll like wwhat i like and you like what you like, nuff said.
i don't actually like acid rain that much, ikt's another oldskool tune i like. may get acid rain though the breaks don't flow nearly as well as soundmurderer and sk-1's.
argue this as much as you want, i can no longer be bothered as i can see that it will get me no where to try and convince you.
and keep in mind that almost everything i own is from the uk, but almost all my new stuff isn't
Posts: 773 Location: United Kingdom of Jungle Joined: 26.08.06
Posted on 02/13/2007
Sorry to butt into your conversation guys, but I wouldn't be OJ without adding my 2 cents. And this aint an argument, it's a learning curve....
The amen break is one of the most widely used drum breaks ever. Maybe the artists in question got all their influence from The Winstons? Or maybe it was NWA? lol
Equinox may not have produced many tracks during the 90's, and he's certainly not a main pioneering producer from that period as he readily admits himself. He's quite young actually. (Although he did DJ during that period on the underground, I had a couple of tapes in my long lost shoebox.) He was still a part of the whole evolution of jungle growing up with a mentor like Bizzy B in a genuine junglist environment, and definitely is a big part of jungle/d&b now.
Squarepusher used the ideas of jungle and formulated his own take on the Amen break using jungle's methods. It has nothing to do with the differences in the number of releases between him and Equinox. I think what Equinox means in that interview is that he respects the way Squarepusher can edit his beats so insanely. Equinox and a lot of U.S producers are all about the drum patterns so that makes sense.
Equinox is leading the way along with Breakage with keeping the amens in jungle. They are both at the top of the UK jungle/d&b scene in this respect. Soundmurderer isn't really. Equinox and Breakage make tracks which pay respect to the old sound that was created by their fellow people. But they also keep their sound fresh and in tune with the pulse of jungle in this era. Soundmurderer, while good at replicating the ragga element of old, plays a far smaller part in the jungle/d&b scene. Why? Rekindling the ragga element is nothing new, there have always been tracks based on that style throughout every year of jungle/d&b. Especially the rise of the dubwise sound from 2000 onwards. Soundmurderer's tracks don't really get played here in the UK because they don't sound right sitting next to a Breakage tune. They would stick out in a set a little. The production just isn't there yet. Listen to the latest Equinox radio show on this thread and ask yourself where a Soundmurderer tune would fit in without sounding a little corny.
I think the difference between Soundmurderer's way of doing things and and people like the Inperspective or Bassbin style producers is that his music is a bit more of a novelty thing. It is something different and exciting to make people dance to, in a country that wasn't exposed to jungle fully back in the day. The ragga jungle the Brits played many years ago is still fresh there in the US. Maybe that is where our difference of opinion comes from? 94 style ragga jungle has great rhythm and a certain soul to it that is not often found in recent American music. Not surprising that it's appealing to the more musically minded of you. No wonder thousands of kids want to reproduce it.
It would be nice to slow things up and get those days back but for us, maybe it isn't viable with respect to how far the music has come in our country.
Soundmurderer is also famed for mixing 60 tracks in 70 mins etc. From my perspective this completely loses the vibe that appreciating each track can bring. Every old tune was a story, a statement, a work of art. Why mash them into a sea of noise? Its a novelty factor for the average joe punter in a club who enjoys a quick fix. In my opinion people like Hype and Andy C tarnished our scene here by providing for those type of people later in the 90s. 4 deck mixing, comedy scratching etc. Tsk. (The need for money took over the love for the music in their case.)
Great new artists like Mutt or BigBud are well respected within the scene because of their willingness to be a part of it. They make tracks which pay a dutiful nod to the old sound whilst staying fresh. In my opinion Soundmurderer has the potential but he doesn't go with the flow like Mutt or Big Bud, or Mathematics, or Will Miles, or Seba, or Redeyes, or Martyn, or all the countless others from other countries who are becoming a success in jungle/d&b.
nice write...Although I didnt realy say that the differences were anything to do with how many releases squarepusher or equinox had..
I meant that equinox comes from the core... From within jungle where as these other guys ,however creative they are come from outside with a reinterpretation...Most of that stuff has never been played at jungle raves...It would have more of a home on the same bill as portishead or fatboy slim..lol.bigbeat boutique shit...A lot of the time it actually sounds like theyre taking the piss..
Have to admit tho I'm more likely to draw a soundmurderer tune (as long as it has riddim)like lockitoff or limb by limb than most drumfunk styles but I wouldnt play em next to acid rain or summing coz the sound would drop away into a flat mush with no bass lol......
Your right about influence man NWA..Public Enemy whoever ...Its an endless list of American and Jamaican musical heretage.
"Some of the sets are a bit hit and miss because I added them to provide a bit of variety."
Well, I can contribute the Devil's variety. Was gonna start a darkstep thread myself, but figured I'd be lonely in there. I'll throw some shit up that I've found in the past couple months. I'm sure out of 3,400 members, some will be interested. I just like the mean shit. What can I say? A lot of you started out Punk; I started out Metal. From my first days in 98 or so I was much more appealed to the hip hop jungle coming in, and the mean shit that was surfacing. LoL...I'll throw some shit up shortly, just for the fuck of it...
OH...and how the hell was Soulslinger not mentioned in your "argument"? LMAO, I personally love me some Soulslinger and Squarepusher, when I'm in the mood. It is rare though, once every three months or so when I feel like rattling the gears loose in my brain.
I'll start with this...there's a pretty ridiculous variety...'bout 25% of 'em have tracklists...Hopefully no one posted this already, haven't been on in a minute and hadn't the time yet to go through the threads...I'll up some shit later, as for now, school work calls.
(OK yea...after posting this I had a bit of deja vu when I was scrolling through it. It strikes me that Klassik might've posted something about this a few months ago. If so, credits are his. Nonetheless, all of the links I've hit up, still work. That "Cause 4 Concern - Stu Mix 1/06" is not to be slept on.)
http://drumnbassrepository.net/dnbmixes2.htm
DELETED THE ARCHIVE LISTING HERE CUZ IT'S A THREAD HOG. A LOT OF EVOL INTENT, BAILEY, COUNTERSTRIKE, DIESELBOY, ED RUSH & OPTICAL, NOISIA, LIMEWAX, VICIOUS CIRCLE, BLAH BLAH BLAH. PEEP IT...
Posts: 773 Location: United Kingdom of Jungle Joined: 26.08.06
Posted on 02/13/2007
Yeah, I know you draw that US stuff Gritty. No disrespect, its good stuff.
I think I was getting at Leftoverz point with the Equinx/Squarepusher number of releases thing, not you mate. lol
That set you sent me was good, but you're right, it would be awkward to fit in some of those choonz in a set of UK amen stuff. I'm not sure the sound of our tunes are a flat mush though, I'd say that Soundmurderer's tunes would sound mushy coming in off a Breakage tune. Breakage tracks sound amazing on our soundsystems. No bass? lol, the low frequency subs just dont get picked up by our home systems, but go to a Bassbin night and hear that shit played out, its deeep!
.
It's really hard to explain to Leftoverz what angle I'm comin from. You know I'm a bit of a purist and have much love for the evolution of UK jungle/d&b. I suppose that's another reason why I started this thread. I wanted to fill a gap and show that the UK is making good stuff these days, and always has. Sometimes it's a little hard to notice when everyone is blinded by the clownstep cheese that Britain churns out on the surface. Our touring heavyweights don't help either, guys like the mighty Grooverider don't represent the true sound any more, playing Clipz and DJFresh tunes over in the US instead of the good shizzle.
Soundmurderer is good, but I think his production isn't there yet. That Toronto VIP track he released over here was pretty fuzzy and was almost a jokey take on jungle compared with the evolved style of Breakage etc. A little stereotypical I reckon. More taking influence from Super Sharp Shooter style jokey jungle than the old Here Comes the Drums sound.
Squarepusher is pretty good listening music, its a nice take on the amen break, if a little crazy at times. That guy is nuts! I suppose Squarepusher's music is another offshoot style of the main thing. You're right, you don't see him at jungle raves over here and he isnt part of the core. I was quite surprised to hear Equinox mention him, thats the first time I've heard a veteran talk about gaining influence from a guy like Squarepusher. I'm sure in most cases it's the other way around.
Posts: 773 Location: United Kingdom of Jungle Joined: 26.08.06
Posted on 02/13/2007
Cheers Die Verse and Klassik, thats a good link to some hefty dark drum and bass if anyone is lookin for it here. There are also quite a few sets from the other sides of d&b too. Good lookin out on dat one chaps.
I appreciate that heavy impact style of d&b, but I aint into it really compared with the styles that are more true to old jungle. I used to play a lot of Renegade Hardware type stuff around 2000 but I got bored of it pretty quick. It's too heavy for me these days, but undoubtedly a well evolved sound.
With this thread I tried to represent some of the more break driven sounds as well as the soulful stuff. Breaks and soul are two jungle elements that are thought missing in d&b right now, so this thread is meant to covince people that that aint the case.
I'm not sure where the heavy Virus and Renegade Hardware sound fits into this thread really. It's almost completely removed from jungle, whereas I find more of a relationship with old jungle in the liquid and dubwise or drumfunk sounds.
Maximum respect to Mirage, Dieverse and the crew dem for the input though. All styles are catered for in GEJ which is fucking great! lol
Maybe one of you guys should start a darkstep thread? I'm a bit underqualified in my knowledge to do it here, my finger has been off that pulse for a long while so I cant justify me adding it to this thread. I dont know enough about it any more. lol
no i agree the early soundmurderer stuff aint so hot sound quality wise, far enogh. but rewind008 (http://www.discogs.com/release/350416) is the he isn't there yet after he got there. quality easily as good as anything from the UK and you try getting those edits to sound loud and well eq'd. i wasn't into that nasty over compressed snare in acid rain, but i am just listening at home, and a propper pa may make that frequency more clear and nice sounding.
the flip to dangerous, darkness (which i'm not really into as it just sounds like a lesser certain sound), could easily be dropped alongside breakage. if you own 1 us record that will make you think twice i would recommend this one.
i can make some mp3 for you guys if you really need them.
and alot of those tunes by the likes of aphex twin are taking the piss, but so is so much dnb these days. what was that everyone take the piss track that twisted did and then john b did, something poos. there is no need to be wanky and serious all the time, but yeah i wouldn't want to go out and dance to it, by I can have a laugh.
i personally am not feeling the breaks in acid rain, the tune that stands out for me is that johnny l, which gets murdered by that horrible switch drop with acid rain, those snare hit reppititions sound cheesy to me, like what kind of world or some other tune with stutter breaks, i like breaks to flow. but i will keep an eye on breakage (his blah blah remix is BY FAR the better one) and equinox, just cos they haven't done anything that creams me yet doesn't mean they wont in the future.
well you did misread... like I sed quote me if ya like... That sound quality thing ??? lol.. keep fooling yourself dude ..some things are subjective but other things are plain for anyone to hear...You are also missing the point about what Im saying about luke vibert /squarepusher and co but thats easily done communicating on a keyboard.. As you told me before you like what you like.. I dont think you will ever understand what were on about. but never mind it dont matter a fuk anyways...lol
i have in some way come to understand your stance, and i appreciate that the scene is a uk scene and you guys wholeheartedly support it. don't worry about anything subjective that i might say.
Posts: 773 Location: United Kingdom of Jungle Joined: 26.08.06
Posted on 02/15/2007
Ha ha, there really is no argument. Every music genre has it's home turf. You wouldn't go to Birmingham England to see the worlds greatest country and western stars would you.
The Brits are definately far better at jungle generally, because it's their music if you look backwards at the scene from now to the beginning. It's been produced in a close knit scene over 15 years in a pretty small country. America is a sparse bunch of bedroom producers that got taken by some second or third hand records and decided to replicate it. There have been small pockets of junglism in America (Chicago, NY etc) for years, but probably down to land mass it never went across the country like it did here. The scene isn't as accomplished as the UK. We're old guard bruv.
Here is a good example: If the UK started playing baseball professionally after the sport has been around for decades in America, the Brits might be able to play the game but the Americans would woop their asses every time. Same with jungle my friend.
In the case of jungle it's all down to geography probably. America is massive and billions are hard to please. UK is small and everyone in the scene knows eachother. If you take the American/Canadian jungle scene as a whole, it doesn't look like much. but looking at the individual scenes in places like Chi or Toronto, there are old and accomplished scenes there. I guess that the US and CA are so big that you guys couldn't connect the dots and make it a continent-wide force to be reckoned with.
Still, a bit of healthy competition might help to get you guys going, it's surely a good thing. Instead of hatin on us for being the pioneers of the jungle scene, why not come and join us, there's room for everyone!
we have concord dawn, who are ok i guess
presha and the bulletproof crew (records suck but pesha IS a good dj)
and shapeshifter, who you really should check out, shit they were only at jazz school a couple of years back when they lived in christchurch (where i lived at the time), check this out
http://www.discogs.com/release/319706
it's top notch, i imagine you'll love it.
oh yeah and the upbeats, salmonella dub and fat freddy's drop
Posts: 773 Location: United Kingdom of Jungle Joined: 26.08.06
Posted on 02/15/2007
Dang! A Kiwi, lol. Oops.
Ha ha - YOU have "Bad Taste" and you are "Braindead".
ha ha hah, only joking, hope you got the joke there! Heh heh
Hey, have you heard that mix The Hidden Sound put up yet? He goes b2b with Fracture and it's hectic! Wicked drum workout. It's posted in my thread if you're interested. Safe
great thread